New i5 Chip Improves Things Considerably: Stable 3.44 Ghz With Stock Cooler

My previous i5-750 processor turned out to be defective. I sent the chip back to NewEgg and got a prompt replacement. The new processor works much better and well within Intel's specs.

With a properly working processor, it is much easier to see the typical i5/i7 behavior when overclocking. It makes an interesting comparison with AMD. Both Intel and AMD processors are unstable when the voltage is too low. This can be anything from a single thread halting with an error under Prime95 to a hard crash. However, at the top, there is a distinctly different behavior. AMD processors tend to become unstable at some temperature threshold and exhibit very similar behavior to undervolting. The variability is the same, you can see one thread halt or the screen turn to multi-colored gibberish or just go black with a hard crash. Intel processors however don't do this. The problem for Intel is thermal throttling when the chip overheats. Unlike AMD, there is no outward sign that anything has happened. The clock drops to a much lower frequency but the chip just keeps chugging along with complete stabillity. However, the fundamental rules are the same: increased clock requires more voltage to remain stable. More voltage means more heat and eventually both types of processor will reach a point when the voltage is not enough to remain stable but more voltage is too hot.

However, Intel's thermal specs are somewhere between cryptic and endecypherable. If my understanding of these specs has improved then the maximum temperature Intel gives would be the center top of the heat spreader (which we have no way to measure without adding our own probe). Secondly, this spec only defines Intel's guarantee for normal operation within the rated wattage. I suppose this might be useful for an OEM but it doesn't help us much for overclocking. The only real temperature we know for certain is when the chip reaches its maximum Tj and thermal throttles. However, the indicated temperatures of when this happens seem to vary from 5 C low for the stock cooler to 30 C or more low with a good third party cooler. Indicated temperature aside though, for all practical purposes, we can use thermal throttling the an upper limit much the same as an AMD error or crash.

What is Stock?
The first question that usually comes up is what a given chip can do at stock settings. However, one needs to be aware that stock is not exactly defined. Suppose we use 1.225 volts VCORE and 1.1 volts IMC as stock. That is fine; I can set both of these manually in the BIOS. So, I save and exit and then re-enter the BIOS. I bring up the Hardware Monitor and find out that the indicated voltage is not what I set. Likewise, I can boot up Windows and check the voltage with CPU-Z. And, I find out that it says something different from both the BIOS setting and BIOS Hardware Monitor. I'm sure one could argue that one of these is more accurate than the other. However, I chose to use the BIOS setting since it is the only thing I can control. What this means is that when I set the BIOS to 1.225 volts this may be a different voltage than what would be available on a different manufacturer's motheboard or even a different model within the same manufacturer. Nor is there any indication that the Auto setting is a common stock value. Perhaps it is most of the time, but I know that my Asus 785 and 79x boards use different stock voltages. Also, what you test with will change the results. Being able to run SuperPi is no real indication of stability. The same system can boot Windows, complete a SuperPi run, and then crash a few minutes or few hours later with no additional stress. My indications are that:

Prime95 Small FFT < Prime95 Large FFT < OCCT Linpack

In other words, I've had settings that passed Prime95 Small FFT but got errors under Large FFT. And, I've had settings that passed Prime95 Large FFT but got errors under OCCT Linpack. However, I've never had the reverse. I've never a setting pass OCCT Linpack but get errors under Prime95 or pass Prime95 Large FFT but get errors under Small FFT. From what I've seen, this relative stress is the same with AMD and Intel. For example, with Prime95 my Phenom II 965 can pass Prime95 Large FFT at 1.4 volts at 3.8 Ghz. However, my Phenom II 965 cannot pass OCCT Linpack at 3.8 Ghz and 1.4 volts. It needs 1.42 volts to be stable. So, I consider OCCT Linpack to be the definitive test. If it can't pass Linpack then I don't consider it to be stable.

What is Stable?
Once you've tested with Linpack and found the point where it passes but increasing clock will either cause thermal throttling with Intel or thermal instability with AMD then where do you go? I have never considered these points to be usable. In other words, I require some margin between where I will run a system and where it has reached its limits. For example, if the system passed Linpack at 180 Mhz x 20 and got errors at 181 Mhz x 20 then I wouldn't run at 180. I would reduce clock two steps and run at 178 Mhz x 20.

We also need some similar margin with Intel's thermal throttling. My preference would be 5 C. In other words, if a given setting passes Linpack without throttling but higher settings do throttle then I would want to reduce clock and voltage enough to drop the temperature 5 C. This should be enough margin to ensure that with changing room temperature, thermal throttling is never an issue. However, this 5 C number can be a problem. If thermal throttling occurs around 95 C then reducing 5 C seems reasonable. However, using a better cooler can drop the indicated throttling temperature down to the 60's. With this situation, dropping 5 C is not the same. The best I could do would be to try to calculate the same ratio. My room temperature is 23 C so if it throttles at 95 C then that is a 72 C range. That is about 14.5x the 5 C reduction. So, I would probably take the new indicated temperature, for example 65 C, and keep the same ratio. 65 C - 23 C = 42. So, I would only reduce 3 C indicated. These margins are the best guestimates I can come up with; if something turns up later to change these then I'll adjust them accordingly, but this is probably a fairly good starting point.

This is the defective i5-750 that I sent back.

And, this is the new one.

I'm going to do the testing in two parts: first with the stock cooler and then with the Freezer 7 Pro. My case has exceptional cooling with its two 200mm fans. So, I decided that to give a more typical result I would unplug the top 200mm fan for the stock testing. With the rear 120mm case fan and front 200mm case fan running, this should be closer to a typical case with three 120mm fans. When I switch to the Freezer 7, I'll plug the top fan back in. I put the side panels back to close up the case (which is how most cases would be). I also decided on a low tech solution to check temperatures inside the case. I have a clock that gives the room temperature but also includes an outside temperature unit. So, I simply set the outside unit on top of the HD 5770 card which is just below the i5 cooling fan.

This is the outside unit setting on top of the video card.

So here the Indoor temperature is room temperature and Outdoor temperature is the temperature inside the case. The screenshot is convenient because it also documents the time and date. However, even with the top fan turned off my case might still be cooler than average.

My case has the vents on top for the top fan.

And, the left side panel is well ventilated.

Aside from the case ventilation there is also the question of CPU fan setting. My BIOS allows setting for a slower, quieter fan or a faster, noisier fan. I decided to leave the setting at Auto since I don't think all BIOS's have this range. We know that at some point, the stock cooler will be inadequate and the highest fan setting might allow just a little more clock but I don't think this distinction is worth testing since the third party cooler is well above this.

My Results So Far
I'll keep adding results here until I reach thermal throttling with the stock cooler. I would guess that thermal throttling probably won't occur until 3.45 - 3.5 Ghz.

1.225 volts VCORE, 1.1 volts IMC BIOS setting
148 Mhz x 20 = 2.96 Ghz - Linpack stable

1.25 volts VCORE, 1.15 volts IMC BIOS setting
168 Mhz x 20 = 3.360 Ghz - Linpack stable

This is a typical screenshot with the 1.25/1.1 volt test at 3.36 Ghz showing the indicated temperature running about 81 C.

And, this is the clock at the same time showing the case at about 16 C above room temperature.

And, this is the screenshot of the completed Linpack test.

My i5-750 completed Linpack at 1.28125 volts VCORE, 1.20 volts IMC at 3.42 Ghz.

And 3.48 Ghz at 1.30625 volts VCORE and 1.25 volts IMC.

And, finally we find the top:

12/17/09 19:04:15 9.000 0.000 9.000 100.00

We've clearly found the ceiling with the stock cooler. At 1.34 volts VCORE, 1.3 volts IMC at 3.56 Ghz everything shows thermal throttling. With the OCCT graph reading 93 C max we will have to bring it down to 88 C to have a 5 C cushion.

And here is the clock shot showing the temperature inside the case about 20 C higher than room temperature.

I have the OCCT temperature graph handy from the previous 3.48 Ghz speed.

However, this graph touches 90 C. So, I had to come down one step to 20 x 173 Mhz = 3.46 Ghz to pass Linpack with 88 C. Next is the issue of stability. Normally I would drop down 2 steps to 171 Mhz while leaving the voltage at 1.30625 VCORE and 1.25 volts IMC to ensure stability. However, I've already established that this voltage is stable for 174 Mhz. So, using this number we drop two steps to 172 Mhz. And, this gives us our official stock cooler testing speed: 20 x 172 Mhz = 3.44 Ghz. This is a 29% overclock with the stock cooler. Not bad at all.

With Turbo turned on, using the stock cooler, the maximum clock is 165 Mhz which gives about the same speed.

Turbo Off : 20 x 173 Mhz = 3.46 Ghz
Turbo On: 21 x 165 Mhz = 3.465 Ghz

Now it's time to reinstall the Freezer 7 Pro.

A First Look At AMD And Intel Stock Coolers

This is rundown of the stock coolers for the Intel i5 and AMD Phenom II processors that I have along with third party coolers.

Click to enlarge any of the following images.

On the left is the stock cooler for the Intel i5-750. On the right is the stock cooler for the AMD Phenom II X3 720. The Intel cooler weighs 250 grams while the AMD cooler weighs 280 grams.

The Intel cooler has a larger fan.

Both heatsinks are solid aluminum. You can see that that the AMD heatsink is taller.

On the left the AMD heatsink has the thermal paste removed down to bare metal. AMD has a solid aluminum heatsink while the Intel heatsink obviously has a copper core. Both processors are rated at 95 watts. The Intel processor probably draws a little more but the copper core and larger fan would take care of that.

The X3 720 cooler is on the left while on the right is the cooler for the AMD Phenom II X4 965. You can see that both fans are the same size. However, the X4 965 fan has deeper blades which probably help move air against higher back pressure caused by the closer spaceing on the cooling fins. The X4 965 cooler weighs 355 grams.

Here you can see that while the X3 720 heatsink is solid, the X4 965 heatsink uses two heatpipes on each side. This is necessary to cope with the greater 125 watt rating.

Update: I was not entirely happy with the stock HSF for PII 965. It is adequate at the stock speed of 3.4 Ghz and probably 3.6 Ghz. However, it does tend to blow hot air on both the motherboard chipset and the memory. And, with my particular case arrangement I have a large, 200mm fan right above the cooler that draws upward. However, because the fins run left and right this is no benefit.

Here you can see that the base of the X4 965 heatsink is all copper. On the right is a third party cooler. This is the Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro. It weighs 530 grams. It has a copper base and three heatpipes on each side. The heatsink is obviously much larger. It also has the standard latching mechanism used on socket AM2/AM2+/AM3.

Update: The Freezer 64 seems much better. I was very concerned that the fan would not clear the DIMMs on the right side of the cpu socket. You can see this in the above picture. The problem with this is that it would have required me to turn the cooler around and then the fan would be blowing backwards. However, it does indeed clear the DIMMs.

Most people wouldn't have the very large fan right above the cooler; but you can see that even with the boxing effect of the video card, the air is directed properly toward the rear case fan. This is much better than the stock fan since it draws cooling air across the DIMMs and then blows cooling air across the chipset heatsinks behind the CPU socket. The air coming from this heatsink is much cooler than it was from the stock heatsink, presumably because of the increased airflow from the larger fan. There may also be some benefit from the vertical draw from the large fan since the fins are aligned vertically.

Here are the X3 720, X4 965, and third party Freezer 64 side by side. The Freezer 64 has a much larger 92mm fan.

On the right is the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro which can be used on both Intel and AMD sockets. It has the same size heatsink and same size fan as the Freezer 64.

A good thing to have handy for overclocking is a better case fan such as this Scythe unit.

Also good to have handy when swapping coolers is thermal compound cleaner and extra thermal compound such as these from Arctic Silver.

I'm current running my PII X4 965 at 3.8 Ghz with the NB at 2.6 Ghz. This seems pretty stable. I've been able to pass OCCT Linpack at about 60 C at 3.9 Ghz. I'm a bit disappointed that I couldn't get the NB up to 2.8 Ghz. I'm not sure how much of this is due to the BIOS. The version I'm using is the very first version that works with this processor.

My opinion so far is that if you have an X3 720 there is very little reason to replace the stock cooler, however I like the Freezer 64 much better than the stock cooler on the PII 965. The Freezer 64 matches the normal weight allowance of 500 grams and since it uses the same cam latch, it installs just like the stock unit. The extra airflow means that the exhaust air is much cooler and this is something I greatly prefer for the motherboard.

Overclocking

I've done a fair amount of testing with my X3 720 Black Edition. My results should be more typical since I'm using the stock heatsink and fan

As I mentioned in my last article people who like Intel's new i5 and i7 processors could argue that the increased wear caused by heat stress doesn't matter because they'll scrap their system in three years anyway. At least, I assume that is what they would say; I haven't heard from anyone who actually uses an i5 or i7 and wants to talk about heat testing with stock HSF. So, it is possible that they are doing better than I have heard. However, with mine I prefer that my system can pass a heavy thermal load test.

I'm currently running:
Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition - 3.4 Ghz; Northbridge - 2.6 Ghz, auto voltage
I cannot hit 3.5 Ghz stable nor can I reach 2.7 Ghz with the NB setting.

OCZ AMD Gold Edition, 7-7-7-19-31, 1333 Mhz, 1.545 volts
To run with these timings I need at least 1.53 volts to be stable.

The standard test program is Prime95. However, this program doesn't give any indication of what is going on with the temperatures so you have to run something else. I ran AMD Overdrive on mine so that I could monitor the temperatures while Prime95 was running. At the very least I would reccomend running the AOD stability test. It is a good test but it doesn't raise the temperature like Prime95. I also tried Intel Burn Test which raises the temperature even more than Prime95 (but not 20 C as the author claims). Mine idles at about 25 C, hits 51 C with Prime95, and reaches 55 C with Intel Burn Test. However, IBT is so buggy that even if your computer crashes it may simply be due to IBT and not due to instability in your system.

For those looking for something simpler I would suggest OCCT 3.1. The regular test on this application heats the same as Prime95 while the Linpack test has heating similar to IBT. However, it also displays core temperatures in real time just like AOD. I would still suggest using a boot CD with MemTest86 to verify the memory. Early on my system would eventually BSOD and reboot even at 3.2 Ghz. So I had wondered if maybe the X3 720 wasn't as good as I had hoped. But, it turned out that the processor was fine and one of my 4 DIMMs was bad. I only confirmed this by running MemTest86. It is also very good at verifying the stability when you change timing or NB speed. I suppose the only thing I haven't tried is using a larger CPU cooler however I wouldn't really expect to get more than maybe 100 Mhz out this. I'm not sure a larger Cooler is really worth it for just 100 Mhz. I'm currently considering getting the new C3 stepping of Phenom II X4 965. With the heat from an extra core a larger HSF might be more worthwhile.

I also tried increasing the Integrated Graphics Processor speed but realistically I don't think you can get much more than 10% this way before your chip gets hot. You might even get 20%. However, I've tried running the free evaluation copy of PassMark's Performance Test and you can really see the graphics bog down. The early tests hit 140 FPS then as the tests get more difficult they go down to 60 FPS, 20 FPS, and 10 FPS. No amount of tweaking of the IGP is going to improve 20 FPS enough to be acceptable, much less 10 FPS. This requires a beefier GPU. So, I'm looking at HD 5770 cards right now. These are pretty close to the older HD 4890 cards so they should be able to handle most graphic loads.

About Intel's i7

So why is it that I seem to be so down on Intel when others think Intel and especially i5/i7 is the greatest thing since sliced bread? Well, I don't have an i5/i7 to test but there are people who do a reasonably good job of testing and don't have a glassy eyed love affair with Intel (like Anand Lal Shimpi). The truth is that Intel's C2D was an excellent processor. However, the initial batch of Kentsfield quads ran hot. In fact, they ran so hot that you could not clock even to 3.0 Ghz without exceeding the rated temperature when using the stock HSF. Ouch. However, the G0 stepping did fix this. And remember that this was at a time when AMD was struggling to hit 2.3 Ghz stock with its own quad core. Then in early 2008 the 45nm Penryns came out and this cut the temperatures even further. The FSB was a serious bottleneck with these quads but again AMD was only creeping up to 2.4 Ghz so it didn't seem to matter. So, Intel enthusiasts had every reason to feel a bit smug. However, by the end of Summer of 2008, AMD was at 2.6 Ghz and using the tweaked 750 southbridge the overclocks were no longer embarrassing. Instead, Intel's severe FSB bottleneck began to be an embarrassment. But, with i7 just around the corner, Intel enthusiasts were able to grin and bear it.

Unfortunately, for i7, it has been a two edged sword. Now that the memory controller is on the die instead of in a separate chip i7 fixes the FSB bottleneck, but i7 also has to handle the entire heat load just as AMD's quad Phenom had to all along. And, just whe i7 was picking up extra heat, AMD had the nerve to release a 45nm Phenom II that actually worked and reduced power draw (just as Penryn did for Intel). Today, heat is once again a serious problem for Intel. But, don't take my word for it. Here at
Benchmark Reviews, Cooling i7 you can see that even undervolted to 1.16 volts, an i7 920 running stock at 2.67 Ghz is 38.5 C over ambient using the stock HSF. So, if your house is 72 F you'll hit 60 C on your processor. Unfortunately, the reviewers were using liquid cooling on both the chipset and video card so most likely your case will be 5 C warmer. In Indiana in the Summer 85 F would not be unsual if you don't have air conditioning. Add 5 C for the case and you are just over the 70 C max that Intel specifies. This is without overclocking. In contrast, my X3 720 running 600 Mhz overclocked would run under 70 C with the same conditions.

Figure in overclocking and it gets far worse. Looking at Benchmark Reviews, i7 Cooling Overclocked we see that running i7 920 at 3.8 Ghz and 1.4 volts increases the temperature by 20 C. With the stock HSF, you would be 10 C over max even at 22 C ambient without a video card. Add in the video card and you are easily 15 C over max. Ouch. But its worse than that. According to the testing, even at 22 C ambient you could easily see 10 C over max even when using a ZeroTherm NV120. A Xigmatek HDT-1S283 or Tuniq Tower 120 will keep you within 70 C just as long as you don't try to push it higher than 3.8 Ghz. And, keep in mind these temperatures are after they laboriously polished the i7's integrated heat spreader to a mirror surface and used a Yate Loon D12SH-12 cooling fan on each product tested. The D12SH-12 cooling fan forces an impressive 88 CFM of air at a moderately noisy 40 dBA. Without these extras your results may be worse.

I know that at this point there will be Intel enthusiasts who will be in full blown denial. They will insist that going over 70 C is nothing and that you can of course go over 1.4 volts and they may even insist that it is impossible for a Phenom II to run cooler since they know that it draws more power. The sad truth though is this quote from the same article:

"The Phenom II processor series from AMD offer a very large 37.31 x 37.31mm (1392.04mm total area) integrated heat-spreader surface, which is the largest processor surface I can recall since the original Intel Pentium (I) days. Compared to Intel's Core 2 Duo and Quad processors which measure 28.5 x 28.5mm, the Phenom II offers over 71% more contact surface area. If you compare the latest Intel Core i7 processors which measure 32 x 35mm, then the Phenom II series offers 24% more contact surface area. For overclockers, this will mean a much larger area to cool, but also much more manageable temperatures."

And, there it is. If you are really committed to Intel and you don't mind spending time polishing the heat spreader and you don't mind the decibel roar of a high volume fan and you don't mind the extra cost of a bolt through kit and you make damn certain that your case is well ventilated then you can indeed get an i7 up to an impressive overclock. Or you could do something similar with a Phenom II with a fraction of the effort because of its 24% larger heat spreader. And, adding insult to injury, AMD just released the C3 Stepping of PII 965 which gives AMD another 100 Mhz bump in overclocking to 4.0 Ghz. Can you match this with an i5 750 or i7 860? Yes, you can but it sure won't be easy. To paraphrase Robert Heinlein, the Intel i7 is a harsh mistress.