tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post9012891420639811329..comments2023-08-01T11:15:10.503-04:00Comments on Scientia's Blog: AMD Technology Analysts Day 2007 – quite a surprise.Scientia from AMDZonehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comBlogger114125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-14637981187066662432007-08-05T15:34:00.000-04:002007-08-05T15:34:00.000-04:00Fuad is showing 45nm penryn prices. So it looks li...<A HREF="http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2234&Itemid=35" REL="nofollow">Fuad</A> is showing 45nm penryn prices. So it looks like these will be what AMD has to deal with:<BR/><BR/>X5460 3.16 GHz, 12 MB, 1333 FSB, $1,164<BR/><BR/>E5450 3.0 GHz, 12 MB, 1333 FSB, $852<BR/><BR/>E5440 2.83 GHz, 12 MB, 1333 FSB, $695<BR/><BR/>E5430 2.66 GHz, 12 MB, 1333 FSB, $467<BR/><Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-74408066104290030192007-08-05T14:02:00.000-04:002007-08-05T14:02:00.000-04:00Scientia,I think everyone may find this thesis of ...Scientia,<BR/><BR/>I think everyone may find this thesis of interest.<BR/><BR/>http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/<BR/>etd-06122007-093459/unrestricted/<BR/>Prakash_thesis.pdf<BR/><BR/>I am sorry to break up the html link, but I could not get it to fit on one line.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps you could write an article on it. It seems to verify a lot of your previous articles on the strengths and weaknesses greenmachinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02713609671767430064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-16782350670222788582007-08-05T08:53:00.000-04:002007-08-05T08:53:00.000-04:00More info about Barcelona and future AMD productsA...More info about Barcelona and future AMD products<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/89" REL="nofollow">AMD Tech Day at Develop 2007</A>Aguiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901972653513415336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-25787438717786050182007-08-03T19:30:00.000-04:002007-08-03T19:30:00.000-04:00ScientiaSo, I'm wondering if these good prices wer...<B>Scientia</B><BR/><I><B>So, I'm wondering if these good prices were just for discontinued stock or whether they will come back down again.</B></I><BR/><BR/>Well all you have to do is look at the current pricing from the respective sites that are in the Dailytech Blog article...<BR/><BR/>1. <A HREF="http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch.hmx?SCriteria=BA23383&CartID=done&nextloc=" REL="nofollow">enumaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279137923346047097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-89913014490171162312007-08-03T13:58:00.000-04:002007-08-03T13:58:00.000-04:00I wonder if this is only temporary. Kubicki claims...I wonder if this is only temporary. <A HREF="" REL="nofollow">Kubicki</A> claims that:<BR/><BR/><I>all the good Intel deals went out of stock in less than 24 hours. <BR/><BR/>Vendors who restocked quantities (Newegg included) returned pricing to pre-cut levels almost immediately. </I><BR/><BR/>So, I'm wondering if these good prices were just for discontinued stock or whether they will come back Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-57351718513517249542007-08-03T04:25:00.000-04:002007-08-03T04:25:00.000-04:00Intel's Copy Exact process works for them. It requ...Intel's Copy Exact process works for them. It requires two or three months of calibration runs before you can run a batch for production. Then, at that point you have a dispersed production system.<BR/><BR/>However, I think someone would have to agree that what works for Intel (under one management and one organization) would not work for AMD. I just cannot imagine the combination of IBM/AMD/Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-24869567417609469652007-08-03T02:43:00.000-04:002007-08-03T02:43:00.000-04:00abi said: We all know why copy exactly is importan...abi said: <I>We all know why copy exactly is important - so engineers can bring the experience several physically separated fabs together. </I><BR/><BR/>it is the other way around. it is to <B>make</B> several physically separated experience the same thing. but i'm just splitting hairs. <BR/><BR/>also several years ago intel learning that copy exactly allows them to do simulatneous multi-fab Roborat, Ph.Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04845879517177508741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-45277538183965427752007-08-03T00:34:00.000-04:002007-08-03T00:34:00.000-04:00intheknow -"And please note that I did say it was ...<B>intheknow</B> -<BR/><I>"And please note that I did say it was advantageous to to have access to the fab about a quarter of the time."</I><BR/><BR/>This advantage of "physical proximity" is stated in your original statement, and is what I was referring to.<BR/><BR/><I>"Oh there is an advantage to a campus with multiple fabs alright, but it has nothing to do with solving process issues."</I><BR/abinsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09589312866039619976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-45604267151301724812007-08-02T23:57:00.000-04:002007-08-02T23:57:00.000-04:00Scientia, let me be perfectly clear here. Without...Scientia, let me be perfectly clear here. Without a doubt there are advantages to having multiple fabs on a single campus. I've never disputed that. However, those reasons aren't for process improvement or sustaining. It is all about dollars. The infrastructure needed to sustain a fab is extensive and expensive. When you can put multiple fabs on a campus, you save big bucks by spreading outInTheKnowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16869163385384973596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-2591266840628666492007-08-02T23:34:00.000-04:002007-08-02T23:34:00.000-04:00abinstein said...Sure, you don't need to do all th...abinstein said...<BR/><BR/><I>Sure, you don't need to do all the work on-site. However, those work are still done more efficiently with physical proximity to the fab.</I><BR/><BR/>Have you ever been in a fab? It is much easier to do analysis outside of the fab. I remember having a conversation several years ago with and engineer at Fairchild who was saying how much nicer it was to work in the InTheKnowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16869163385384973596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-87308667950545372722007-08-02T22:20:00.000-04:002007-08-02T22:20:00.000-04:00aguia said...So if that’s the case InTheKnow then ...aguia said...<BR/><BR/><I>So if that’s the case InTheKnow then that could explain the why AMD achieved (slide 22) 65nm at mature yields so fast, or this is unrelated?</I><BR/><BR/>If anything, your comment supports my point. You are referring to the 65nm ramp. AMD has only ramped the one fab. It is all new tooling (12 inch) so there is no help to be had from next door. <BR/><BR/>And that plotInTheKnowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16869163385384973596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-69054149083947371992007-08-02T16:27:00.000-04:002007-08-02T16:27:00.000-04:00giantI'm not sure what point you are trying to mak...<B>giant</B><BR/><BR/>I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. ATI stated that they knew the problem existed with the 80hs transistors but didn't believe that they had time to move to 65nm. Now they are. Given the problems at 80nm, this seems reasonable to me.<BR/><BR/>Blame is not a factor. This simply concerns a problem and its solution. The R600 reviews showed the problem and it will beScientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-28528038689336616202007-08-02T16:21:00.000-04:002007-08-02T16:21:00.000-04:00intheknowIntel realized this a long time ago. Inte...<B>intheknow</B><BR/><BR/>Intel realized this a long time ago. Intel's first development FAB was D1 which later become FAB 15.<BR/><BR/>The second was D1B. Intel realized the advantage of having everything together so it built RP1 and D1C next to D1B. RP1 is where process research takes place. D1C replaced D1B as the development FAB and D1B became FAB 20. Intel later replaced D1C with D1D and D1CScientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-3089262610884020892007-08-02T13:48:00.000-04:002007-08-02T13:48:00.000-04:00intheknow -"First Intel has a virtual factory syst...<B>intheknow</B> -<BR/><I>"First Intel has a virtual factory system that ties all of their factories on a given node together through copy exactly...<BR/><BR/>Second, Intel has multiple fabs on at least two of their campuses..."</I><BR/><BR/>Your statements actually show Scientia's right, that having fabs spread around is a disadvantage. That is precisely why Intel needs to copy-exact, to create abinsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09589312866039619976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-14282578646196858932007-08-02T13:39:00.000-04:002007-08-02T13:39:00.000-04:00"75% of the process doesn't have to happen in the ...<I>"75% of the process doesn't have to happen in the fab."</I><BR/><BR/>Sure, you don't need to do all the work on-site. However, those work are still done more efficiently with physical proximity to the fab.abinsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09589312866039619976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-72684655628399707392007-08-02T11:05:00.000-04:002007-08-02T11:05:00.000-04:00So if that’s the case InTheKnow then that could ex...So if that’s the case InTheKnow then that could explain the why AMD achieved (slide 22) 65nm at mature yields so fast, or this is unrelated?<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/July2007AMDAnalystDayDougGrose.pdf" REL="nofollow">2007 Analyst Day</A>Aguiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901972653513415336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-15384326954900963502007-08-02T10:10:00.000-04:002007-08-02T10:10:00.000-04:00aguia, have you fixed many tool issues? If so the...aguia, have you fixed many tool issues? If so then you know that 75% of the process doesn't have to happen in the fab. You do data analysis on the failure mode, check tool parameters and develop a troubleshooting plan. Then you collect the data from the plan and determine the next steps until you have root cause. This part of the process can be done from anywhere. <BR/><BR/>Now the other 25%InTheKnowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16869163385384973596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-31208242577622652782007-08-02T09:45:00.000-04:002007-08-02T09:45:00.000-04:00Trust me on this. The "advantage" you perceive AMD...<I>Trust me on this. The "advantage" you perceive AMD gaining from the physical proximity of the two fabs is non-existent.</I><BR/><BR/>Really?!<BR/>How having the same employees on both factories and going from factory to factory as the needs arise practically "on foot" is not an (huge) advantage?<BR/><BR/>I also don’t think that some problems or most of them as you implied, can be solved on theAguiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901972653513415336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-7500343380232973392007-08-02T07:26:00.000-04:002007-08-02T07:26:00.000-04:00When R600 was reviewed it was on an 80nm process w...<I><BR/><BR/>When R600 was reviewed it was on an 80nm process with leaky 80hs transistors.</I><BR/><BR/>Trying to blame TSMC's process here? G80 is the fastest, most advanced, GPU in the world and it's produced at 90nm. AMD's GPUs are broken; not TSMC's process.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04674699447174785970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-6459869734449450442007-08-01T23:59:00.000-04:002007-08-01T23:59:00.000-04:00Scientia said...AMD will have an advantage by havi...<B>Scientia said...</B><BR/><BR/><I>AMD will have an advantage by having two similar FABs at the same location. Intel's disadvantage is having widely separated FABs.</I><BR/><BR/>You are completely mistaken here. <BR/><BR/>First Intel has a virtual factory system that ties all of their factories on a given node together through copy exactly. With the aid of email, an intranet system and a InTheKnowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16869163385384973596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-49034327894578495662007-08-01T13:35:00.000-04:002007-08-01T13:35:00.000-04:00AbinsteinHad you or I were there we could've asked...<B>Abinstein</B><BR/><I><B>Had you or I were there we could've asked the lady which SPECfp benchmark it is running, then we'd probably have got a good answer, or at least is acknowledged the benchmark is not full SPECfp.</B></I><BR/><BR/>I can accept that.<BR/><BR/>Thanks.enumaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279137923346047097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-15383549843497815422007-08-01T12:54:00.000-04:002007-08-01T12:54:00.000-04:00Ho Ho -"Then please explain me why doesn't even th...<B>Ho Ho</B> -<BR/><I>"Then please explain me why doesn't even the 1066MHz FSB limit GPU performance on Intel machines."</I><BR/><BR/>Apparently GPU performance does not take much FSB bandwidth. Is it that difficult to understand? Do you load/store every pixel with x86 instructions when writing OpenGL or DirectX?<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>aguia</B> -<BR/><I>"You don't know why the connecting bus speed is abinsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09589312866039619976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-50322940154687491322007-08-01T12:30:00.000-04:002007-08-01T12:30:00.000-04:00enumae -"Because they come across as though it is ...<B>enumae</B> -<BR/><I>"Because they come across as though it is a full SPECfp test, like I said you had thought it was."</I><BR/><BR/>The problem is really that we didn't attend the event in person, and we had to watch it through a video.<BR/><BR/>Had you or I were there we could've asked the lady which SPECfp benchmark it is running, then we'd probably have got a good answer, or at least is abinsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09589312866039619976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-48935966942510949672007-08-01T11:55:00.000-04:002007-08-01T11:55:00.000-04:00So, you found out that AMD's 77 techs at East Fish...<I>So, you found out that AMD's 77 techs at East Fishkill do nothing but play poker all day? That was supposed to be a corporate secret.</I><BR/><BR/>LOL. If that’s the case I'm qualified to join the team. ;)Aguiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901972653513415336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-77078950761784753582007-08-01T10:19:00.000-04:002007-08-01T10:19:00.000-04:00lex"Give you credit you write like"I can't give yo...<B>lex</B><BR/><BR/><I>"Give you credit you write like"</I><BR/><BR/>I can't give you the same credit. You write a lot of verbage but say very little. You also seem to have some trouble with English and are responding to things I didn't say.<BR/><BR/><I>"Some think you just go to Applied, ASML and put those tools in the fab and viola you got high performance, high yielding silicon just like that.Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.com