tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post6376353133732506667..comments2023-08-01T11:15:10.503-04:00Comments on Scientia's Blog: Intel Versus AMD: The Truth UnfoldsScientia from AMDZonehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-84833138187004059782007-01-16T03:33:00.000-05:002007-01-16T03:33:00.000-05:00Okay, Adsense reinstated my account so I guess I c...Okay, Adsense reinstated my account so I guess I can't say that they are a scam. However, their filtering software is a bit hamfisted and it took more than a week to get it corrected.Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-38216609419945314722006-12-25T03:37:00.000-05:002006-12-25T03:37:00.000-05:00Well, theoretically, I will eventually earn some s...Well, theoretically, I will eventually earn some small income from the advertising here. Or, at least I will if I find an advertiser that isn't a scam like AdSense.<br /><br />Apparently, AdSense sets their payment threshold quite high so that they have time to get free advertising on small websites before they create some pretense to cancel the accounts. Apparently, they do this routinely. I'm Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-70024004623581921532006-12-20T18:51:00.000-05:002006-12-20T18:51:00.000-05:00Hey Scientia, I am wondering if you would be inter...Hey Scientia, I am wondering if you would be interested in posting your blog on a forum I am working on.<br /><br />I will give you moderator privlages, and I will continue to pay for the site.<br /><br />It is a way to bring alot of blogs to one place.<br /><br />If you would like to look at the forum the link is here...<br /><br />http://www.cpu-gpu-forum.com<br /><br />It would be great if youenumaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279137923346047097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-44726266221740038772006-12-20T13:10:00.000-05:002006-12-20T13:10:00.000-05:00x64, that would be really awesome, but AMD basical...x64, that would be really awesome, but AMD basically got pushed into doing the same dance as Intel in order to remain competitive.<br /><br />Red, while launching the apps separately is also another way of showing megataskability, they should've had an entire 9 pages devoted to that if they were going to do any testing at all in my opinion. They should've done several tests where they only ran Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213836942211537422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-46626318649554003382006-12-20T13:07:00.000-05:002006-12-20T13:07:00.000-05:00Oops:p But I think we can at least conclude that s...Oops:p But I think we can at least conclude that some gaming, inefficient encoders, all file compressors are more memory intensive than most? If you're on the lookout for that FSB choking..:)Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116121761413049785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-81337641859159609472006-12-20T12:52:00.000-05:002006-12-20T12:52:00.000-05:00Thanks for that overview Scientia!
But, I can't u...Thanks for that overview Scientia!<br /><br />But, I can't understand, why we have to do with such matters like SSE performance generally? The Intel's mArchitecture desings are with totally wrong concept, I think. At minimum "SSE #" is only an extension(s). To mix SIMD & classical ALU (per core) together is something like to use a highway simultaneously as parking lot and speedway?! Unfortunatelyx64https://www.blogger.com/profile/10901451875799831673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-16455295684542436292006-12-20T06:55:00.000-05:002006-12-20T06:55:00.000-05:00Red said ...
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_conte...<b>Red said ...</b><br /><i>http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=5160vs6800&page=1<br />In this review, in benches where you think the Xeon would win, it doesn't. </i><br /><br />Yes, Red, you have pointed out an anomaly in the test results. However, you aren't picking up the reason which is on page 7<br /><br /><a href="http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=5160vs6800&page=7">Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-63332170833466348682006-12-19T22:01:00.000-05:002006-12-19T22:01:00.000-05:00If you're going to repudiate the review, you shoul...If you're going to repudiate the review, you should at least point out something wrong with it. Back to the GamePC review, Half Life 2, WME, file compression, seem to be greatly affected by the FBD's..<br />http://xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/amd-quad-fx/charts/multitasking.png<br />And according to this bench, eventually the QX6700 does crack, which would support the seemingly erroneous file Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116121761413049785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-16773010293906745162006-12-19T19:16:00.000-05:002006-12-19T19:16:00.000-05:00Red, quit being speculative and start arguing obje...Red, quit being speculative and start arguing objectively, because right now all it sounds like is that you're just trying to make up arguments that we may never have to address.<br /><br />Maybe the test suite you brought up is also erroneous and unusable? You should really analyze it a lot more before you just accept the results as worthwhile.<br /><br />Also, it would be nice if they tested Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213836942211537422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-27195825710289818942006-12-19T17:10:00.000-05:002006-12-19T17:10:00.000-05:00I haven't brought up DivX in my last post but I br...I haven't brought up DivX in my last post but I brought it up to ask how you are able to determine whether apps are memory intensive and in my last post, I've shown a bench where you would think that a higher FSB would score better, and possibly so, but at least it shows that you can't compare 5160 and QX6700. Kind of throws away your method when there are huge discrepancies between the 5160 vs Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116121761413049785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-14969817182316674852006-12-19T15:48:00.000-05:002006-12-19T15:48:00.000-05:00Red, you've now brought up DivX so many times I've...Red, you've now brought up DivX so many times I've lost count. Let's just say that I was wrong and that DivX is not bandwidth intensive. Is your theory that if I was wrong about one thing then nothing I write is correct? I'm certain I will make mistakes from time to time and I will correct them when they are pointed out just as I corrected the error in this article about memory dropoff on the Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-87531559186527629192006-12-19T14:18:00.000-05:002006-12-19T14:18:00.000-05:00Scientia says poor tests aren't indicative of true...Scientia says poor tests aren't indicative of true performance? That just because it may seem like Intel won on one site, they haven't? Well I think that the many poor tests from dozens of sites show pretty well that Core 2 is ahead of X2 and QX6700 is ahead of Quad FX.<br /><br />You would think that the higher FSB powered Xeon would beat the X6800.. That is all:)<br /><br />http://Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116121761413049785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-9488774675079421512006-12-19T13:19:00.000-05:002006-12-19T13:19:00.000-05:00*edit* the reason xp would not show core jumps is ...*edit* the reason xp would not show core jumps is because it is not numa aware.<br /><br />Sorry if that was confusing.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213836942211537422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-39445173964419144622006-12-19T13:17:00.000-05:002006-12-19T13:17:00.000-05:00Well, I'm sorry red, because I don't see how you c...Well, I'm sorry red, because I don't see how you could object to that understanding.<br /><br />A good comparison does not necessarily have to be apples to apples (in terms of the hardware), however it must be apples to apples in terms of the tests and the platform. Even then, you have to know the eccentricities of those tests and platform in order to give a qualified conclusion or know when not Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213836942211537422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-21399456982137742006-12-19T12:18:00.000-05:002006-12-19T12:18:00.000-05:00I said it made no sense because I don't see how yo...I said it made no sense because I don't see how you can say that just because poor testing shows something, that people "don't know". I'd like a reprahsing:)<br /><br />I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison to compare QX6700 vs 2x5160s because the 5160s have a 12.8% clock advantage, different RAM, etc.<br />http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=5160vs6800&page=1<br />In this Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116121761413049785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-71055574667398402872006-12-19T11:50:00.000-05:002006-12-19T11:50:00.000-05:00"as one operating system that's not optimized for ..."as one operating system that's not optimized for [NUMA] would choose a new core each time it needed to do a new operation, thus switching cores constantly, completely saturating the cache"<br /><br />Wouldn't that cache trashing also happen on Intel where caches are not shared (2P, dual die)? If it does then it should be much worser for Intel since, as many people claim, most of its performance Ho Hohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00177815588184912351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-22007085416951765492006-12-19T09:47:00.000-05:002006-12-19T09:47:00.000-05:00And I'd like to know how you are able to determine...<i>And I'd like to know how you are able to determine what is memory intensive or not. You seemed quite sure about that about DivX and we all know how that turned out.</i><br /><br />I would like an answer from scientia about that. It is true that scientia argued over K8's bandwidth advantage using DivX as an example in his rhetoric. However, as red implied, scientia was dead wrong.gdp77https://www.blogger.com/profile/18363003449181307185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-61465559918992344252006-12-19T05:10:00.000-05:002006-12-19T05:10:00.000-05:00As I said in article, the worst case with any benc...As I said in article, the worst case with any benchmark due to no NUMA support gave Intel a 75% advantage. With interleaving this dropped to a 35% advantage for Intel but was only 18% with the NUMA problem. I'd say that 75% is pretty drastic since this would be a 43% drop-off.Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-27690668109691908342006-12-19T04:05:00.000-05:002006-12-19T04:05:00.000-05:00"Changing operating systems would drastically effe..."Changing operating systems would drastically effect NUMA performance, as one operating system that's not optimized for it would choose a new core each time it needed to do a new operation, thus switching cores constantly, completely saturating the cache, and most likely saturating memory bandwidth due to cache recalling. An operating system that was numa aware would not do this, as it would keepHo Hohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00177815588184912351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-68502963455410535472006-12-18T23:19:00.000-05:002006-12-18T23:19:00.000-05:00"Poor testing doesn't mean that AMD is better; it ..."Poor testing doesn't mean that AMD is better; it just means that you don't know.<br />That makes no sense."<br /><br />Red, that makes perfect sense. If the tests are bad enough you can't really know who is how much better than the other. If someone drove a shelby at 30 mph, took the time it took to drive 10 miles, and did the same thing with a magnum at 60 mph, and then tried to compare the Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213836942211537422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-8052273950327908802006-12-18T20:22:00.000-05:002006-12-18T20:22:00.000-05:00Yes, you are correct. The differences between the ...Yes, you are correct. The differences between the two testing methods prevent them from being directly compared. I have edited the article to remove the statement that Intel is showing a dropp-off due to bus contention. Yes, I wish they would stick to one testing method.Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-51907502033189405332006-12-18T18:22:00.000-05:002006-12-18T18:22:00.000-05:00Server review:Using 3ds max's default scanline ren...Server review:<i>Using 3ds max's default scanline renderer, we rendered a single frame of this scene at 1920x1080 resolution.</i><br /><br />Desktop review:<i>Using 3ds max's default scanline renderer, we first rendered frames 0 to 10 of the scene at 500x300 resolution. The renderer's "Use SSE" option was enabled.</i><br /><br />:)..? Rather than ignoring what I just showed you because I Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116121761413049785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-74216514314044981672006-12-18T17:28:00.000-05:002006-12-18T17:28:00.000-05:00K8 can do two 64 bit SSE instructions per clock or...K8 can do two 64 bit SSE instructions per clock or one 128 bit SSE instruction.<br /><br />C2D is twice as fast with SSE and can do two 128 bit instructions per clock. It could theoretically do four if the data were perfect which is unlikely.<br /><br />To answer your question, Red, I can tell which are bandwidth intensive by comparing QX6700 with dual Xeon 5160. You can also tell by comparing Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-76345185693359780572006-12-18T16:10:00.000-05:002006-12-18T16:10:00.000-05:00Poor testing doesn't mean that AMD is better; it j...<i>Poor testing doesn't mean that AMD is better; it just means that you don't know.</i><br />That makes no sense.<br /><br />I guess the point of your article is to say that Core 2 is not as good as all of the review sites show?..I think the that for yesterday's price of AMD's slowest dual core for FX62 performance in the E6600 is pretty good:)<br /><br />I think you should drop the synthetics Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116121761413049785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-77724797582860354262006-12-18T14:30:00.000-05:002006-12-18T14:30:00.000-05:00"The first benchmark is Cinebench which renders a ..."The first benchmark is Cinebench which renders a graphic scene. Surprisingly, Intel and AMD are almost dead even on this benchmark."<br /><br />I must say that one is one of the worsest ray tracers I know. It doesn't scale over multiple CPU's and it doesn't use any SIMD. My best guess is that it is using only the scalar FPU to do its things.<br /><br />"The next is Pov-Ray and once again the Ho Hohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00177815588184912351noreply@blogger.com