tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post153351528071855745..comments2023-08-01T11:15:10.503-04:00Comments on Scientia's Blog: Intel's Chipsets -- The Roots Of MonopolyScientia from AMDZonehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-6979522748825253722007-04-17T12:47:00.000-04:002007-04-17T12:47:00.000-04:00MacCooks burning is due to poor assembly practices...MacCooks burning is due to poor assembly practices and cooling design, not hot processors. I essentially have the same problem on my old pentium m, and no one complained about those cooking your lap. Just open it up, and fix the thermal paste, and all your heating problems are gone.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213836942211537422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-82415284128762620222007-04-17T11:12:00.000-04:002007-04-17T11:12:00.000-04:00Doesn't the power saving functions not work on you...<I>Doesn't the power saving functions not work on your laptop?</I><BR/><BR/>ho ho,<BR/>According to Intel and AMD they don’t:<BR/><A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=2968&p=2" REL="nofollow">Anandtech Penryn</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6918" REL="nofollow">Anandtech K10</A><BR/><BR/>Maybe they will.<BR/>And I don’t encode Aguiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901972653513415336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-77254102489745429192007-04-17T06:59:00.000-04:002007-04-17T06:59:00.000-04:00Adding more cores has already shown diminishing re...<I>Adding more cores has already shown diminishing returns.</I><BR/><BR/>Not in servers, running server based software. <BR/><BR/>I admit desktop useless for now.<BR/><BR/>In mobile is even more useless if the all idea is to save power. <BR/>Give me a single core 2.6Ghz Turion or Core 2 based processor that consumes 20W instead of one dual core that does 31W.Aguiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901972653513415336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-53761210753093995582007-04-16T23:59:00.000-04:002007-04-16T23:59:00.000-04:00AMD, like any intelligent company, knows it cannot...AMD, like any intelligent company, knows it cannot stay ahead all the time. If it invests in only ever staying ahead, (aka, a new fab) it can never stay stable, it can never become a truly profitable company that can actually serve its customers to the full of its desire.<BR/><BR/>AN investment in ATI is an investment in safety. It doesn't have to stay ahead to have a product companies will want Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213836942211537422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-63365533452509768592007-04-16T23:07:00.000-04:002007-04-16T23:07:00.000-04:00AMD figures that Intel's monopoly will start break...AMD figures that Intel's monopoly will start breaking at 30% (although I suspect this could happen with less).<BR/><BR/>I don't see AMD's having more than three FABs though so I don't think AMD will hit 50%.<BR/><BR/>The exact market share with three FABs depends on market growth. This would most likely be 40-45%.Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-56645586383671557522007-04-16T22:32:00.000-04:002007-04-16T22:32:00.000-04:00Scientia I understand your position on why AMD pur...Scientia I understand your position on why AMD purchased ATI instead of building another FAB, so I have come up with a simple question, I hope.<BR/><BR/>What percentage of the market does AMD want?<BR/><BR/>I ask because AMD was able to achieve about 26% of the market without Dell or the ability to offer a platform.<BR/><BR/>Thanks.enumaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279137923346047097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-31300133638399352512007-04-16T21:37:00.000-04:002007-04-16T21:37:00.000-04:00Roborat, if the timing is completely wrong, then w...Roborat, if the timing is completely wrong, then we wouldn't already bee seeing that adding cores will hit a wall.<BR/><BR/>You also fail to provide a real example of what AMD could have done instead of buying ATI. Saying "the timing was wrong" is just a copout.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213836942211537422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-894937597718019032007-04-16T20:33:00.000-04:002007-04-16T20:33:00.000-04:00Scientia said: "AMD has often had chicken and egg...Scientia said: <I> "AMD has often had chicken and egg problems where it needed to be able to provide chipsets..." </I><BR/><BR/><B>AMD did not spend $5B to solve today's problems.<BR/><BR/>If you really want to understand what the urgency was you have to look further in the future. Even beyond Fusion. <BR/>There is performance wall that Intel and AMD's about to hit if they stick with the current Roborat, Ph.Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04845879517177508741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-54231802493195054272007-04-16T10:15:00.000-04:002007-04-16T10:15:00.000-04:00Via and SIS barely stay alive.How could they ever ...Via and SIS barely stay alive.<BR/>How could they ever have helped AMD?<BR/><BR/>In the end, Intel, AMDATI and Nvidia will divide the market between them.sharikouisallwaysrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07510020491841409499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-13968782353329224892007-04-16T07:05:00.000-04:002007-04-16T07:05:00.000-04:00If AMD just wanted some chipsets, Ati is too big.W...If AMD just wanted some chipsets, Ati is too big.<BR/><BR/>What about Uli?<BR/><BR/>Uli would give the server chipset they wanted.<BR/>Value chipset for desktops.<BR/>High-end chipset for desktop and workstations.<BR/><BR/>Uli lacked the IGP that could be solved by forcing Uli to design chipsets with just one chip. The second chip could be contracted to Ati, Nvidia, Sis, Via and be easily Aguiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901972653513415336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-13573039718345062192007-04-15T23:52:00.000-04:002007-04-15T23:52:00.000-04:00jarradWhy didn't AMD save a bundle of cash and buy...<B>jarrad</B><BR/><BR/><I>Why didn't AMD save a bundle of cash and buy someone like VIA?</I><BR/><BR/>Well, aside from the fact that I don't believe that VIA's product line is extensive enough, I don't think it would have worked. Since VIA is the only other producer of X86 processors I'm certain that sale would have been blocked without the very complicated step of divesting the CPU line. I can'tScientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-62177324141699454622007-04-15T22:15:00.000-04:002007-04-15T22:15:00.000-04:00enumaeWouldn't AMD's biggest partner be included i...<B>enumae</B><BR/><BR/><I>Wouldn't AMD's biggest partner be included in this list as well...IBM?</I><BR/><BR/>This is at least partially true. IBM has done work with server northbridges for X86. However, I don't think that IBM has much experience with either consumer grade chipsets or with graphics. However, the point would remain that AMD wouldn't poach employees from IBM. <BR/><BR/>Basically, Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-57762919302183538572007-04-15T21:43:00.000-04:002007-04-15T21:43:00.000-04:00I would like to add a few pennies to the comments....I would like to add a few pennies to the comments.<BR/><BR/>Nvidia have terrible driver support.<BR/><BR/>You should all know that they dropped or is dropping support for all nforce 3 , 4 Mobo for Windows Vista. Some Mobo have only 2 years of support cycle.<BR/><BR/>Presently, nforce MB and GeForce series of card lacks stable and fully functional drivers For MS Vista. Seems to me nVidia would Wise lnvestorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02516243979683382455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-85207605844616253172007-04-15T14:46:00.000-04:002007-04-15T14:46:00.000-04:00"AMD has often had chicken and egg problems where ..."<I>AMD has often had chicken and egg problems where it needed to be able to provide chipsets to get OEM contracts and needed OEM contracts to encourage its partners to make chipsets.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Is it then reasonable to assume that AMD gave nVidia good support/compensation for the latter's effort in creating K7/K8 chipsets?<BR/><BR/>Maybe AMD is tired of nVidia's demand (for compensation) and abinsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09589312866039619976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-40872987611235888562007-04-15T14:43:00.000-04:002007-04-15T14:43:00.000-04:00"Why didn't AMD save a bundle of cash and buy some...<I>"Why didn't AMD save a bundle of cash and buy someone like VIA? They would have gotten the chipsets they were after, as well as the graphics (S3)."</I><BR/><BR/>I also believe AMD bought ATi for its footage in the consumer products, like game console, smartphones, etc., places where Intel doesn't have monopoly power (yet).abinsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09589312866039619976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-70682585272452544672007-04-15T13:01:00.000-04:002007-04-15T13:01:00.000-04:00I have a question for Scientia and others here. AM...I have a question for Scientia and others here. AMD bought Ati for A) It's chipsets (to satisfy Dell etc) and B) it's graphics for it's future plans, Fusion etc. <BR/><BR/>Why didn't AMD save a bundle of cash and buy someone like VIA? They would have gotten the chipsets they were after, as well as the graphics (S3). Sure, VIA's graphics are not on par with Ati/Nvidia, but with all the cash they'dAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16855955173854393030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-38480688991590875302007-04-15T12:49:00.000-04:002007-04-15T12:49:00.000-04:00ScientiaAnd, as far as I know only Intel, AMD, VIA...<B>Scientia</B><BR/><I>And, as far as I know only Intel, AMD, VIA, nVidia, and ATI have direct experience creating X86 chipsets.</I><BR/><BR/>Wouldn't AMD's biggest partner be included in this list as well...IBM?enumaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279137923346047097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-54398664037970889252007-04-15T12:31:00.000-04:002007-04-15T12:31:00.000-04:00SciAMD has often had chicken and egg problems wher...Sci<BR/><BR/><I>AMD has often had chicken and egg problems where it needed to be able to provide chipsets to get OEM contracts and needed OEM contracts to encourage its partners to make chipsets. Since AMD doesn't make motherboards like Intel does it didn't really have the option of buying directly from the supplier as Intel did with ATI.<BR/><BR/>These problems were solved by the purchase of ATIChristian H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16847810167041864292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-45382374596144732262007-04-15T11:26:00.000-04:002007-04-15T11:26:00.000-04:00As usual, it's refreshing to see someone who is lo...As usual, it's refreshing to see someone who is looking at the bigger picture and not just the bad patches.<BR/><BR/>R600 and K10 can't flop as the measure of perf is K8 NOT C2D. AMD knows this. I would be skeptical had C2Q numbers come out first but they didn't.<BR/><BR/>They empahsized 80% increase for dual core or 160% total for Barcelona.<BR/><BR/>The fact that Barc will be HT1 means that Christian H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16847810167041864292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-27914348594946296902007-04-15T08:22:00.000-04:002007-04-15T08:22:00.000-04:00Okay, let me try this again.Intel currently has by...Okay, let me try this again.<BR/><BR/>Intel currently has by far the biggest portion of the integrated graphics market both in desktop and mobile. nVidia and ATi are very strong in discrete graphics but Intel is the leader for integrated.<BR/><BR/>Intel is not the integrated leader merely by chance. Integrated graphics target three main areas: desktop, commercial, and mobile.<BR/><BR/>Mobile: Scientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-80776222389360694082007-04-15T05:50:00.000-04:002007-04-15T05:50:00.000-04:00abinstein said... No, you didn't read the article...abinstein said... <BR/><I> No, you didn't read the article (or at least you don't understand it). The argument is that... </I><BR/><BR/><B> i meant the articles Scientia mentioned. NOT scientia's article.<BR/></B><BR/><BR/>Scientia said...<BR/><I> I guess you could argue that AMD would have more cash for development but clearly the near term problem is market access and AMD doesn't get that Roborat, Ph.Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04845879517177508741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-7614526939317118982007-04-15T05:42:00.000-04:002007-04-15T05:42:00.000-04:00"This talk about AMD's rushing and making hasty de..."This talk about AMD's rushing and making hasty decisions and being unprepared is simply incorrect. AMD saw that future sales were dependent on market access that would only come with its own chipset solutions. AMD has direct experience with this with the 760 and 8000 series chipsets. These were good but not extensive enough. ATI brings the depth of solutions that AMD needs."<BR/><BR/>My questionJeff Grawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01441858313398928245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-28309794184377926532007-04-15T03:47:00.000-04:002007-04-15T03:47:00.000-04:00I think fusion is way more promising than just bei...I think fusion is way more promising than <B>j</B>ust being able to back your processors with chipset. Big OEMs will really going to jump the train if the fusion chips are to be sold with little price additive comparing to regular CPUs and that alone can give 80% of AMD CPUs ability to penetrate the market like never before, thus ensuring that current added capacity of AMD (via new fabs as well Azmount Arylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04502480949403901507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-10439388488913720062007-04-14T20:47:00.000-04:002007-04-14T20:47:00.000-04:00enumaeYou are still missing the point. AMD's near ...<B>enumae</B><BR/><BR/>You are still missing the point. AMD's near term problem is not capacity. If AMD skipped the ATI purchase and built another FAB instead this would have two problems. The first is that AMD will lose market access and not be able to expand sales. The second problem is that the new FAB wouldn't come online until perhaps 2010. AMD's position would be much worse by then.<BR/><BRScientia from AMDZonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307174874527564058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32351755.post-68116529212427457052007-04-14T19:38:00.000-04:002007-04-14T19:38:00.000-04:00Scientia...The only way that you can logically arg...<B>Scientia</B><BR/><I>...The only way that you can logically argue that AMD should not have purchased ATI is to show a greater benefit by avoiding the purchase.</I><BR/><BR/>I am not sure if this is directed to Roborat or myself.<BR/><BR/>I have made mention before that the purchase was needed for future market share and or penetration, but I do believe the timing could have been better.<BR/><BRenumaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279137923346047097noreply@blogger.com